Daily Kos

Ann Coulter is not at Fault

Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 02:24:14 PM PDT

Watching the sad spectacle of Ann Coulter cavorting in her own sad filth on the Chris Matthews show inevitably tempts us to be angry with her. But Ms. Coulter is emphatically not the problem. Nasty fools spouting messages of hate can be found with no difficulty. They are everywhere. There is an infinite supply of them.

Chris Matthews is not the problem either. Being the sort of showoff clowning personality he is, Matthews will do anything for attention, money, ratings... you name it, Chris Matthews will debase himself to get it.

More after the jump...

MSNBC is closer to the problem, but still not at the crux of it. Like every other business, MSNBC exists to make money. Since Chris Matthews and Ann Coulter attract viewers, and since viewers attract advertisers, and since advertisers pay enormous sums to MSNBC, it is natural and understandable that MSNBC puts Matthews and Coulter on the air. Their antics are too remunerative for MSNBC to resist.

Having eliminated Coulter, Matthews and MSNBC as the culprits in creating the sort of profitable freak show we have watched over the past few days, who is left to blame?

Oddly, I think the U.S. Constitution, and specifically its First Amendment, are to blame, in a special sense. When the First Amendment was written, ink on paper constituted the most powerful medium of communication known to our species. The well-known quotation, something like, "Freedom of the press belongs to the person who owns one," turns out not to have been the critical failing one might have expected, simply because small-scale use, for a fee, of existing printing presses was and continues to be quite reasonably cheap. Pamphleteers have never been seriously impeded from disseminating their words by the expense of printing them; rather only by political suppression. And the First Amendment as we now know it has turned out to a near-perfect solution to the problem of politically repressed speech.

But today's media climate could not be more different from that in which the drafters of our Constitution were immersed. While they were surrounded by printed matter in vast, controversial, unkempt profusion, our days are instead filled with loud and carefully crafted messages of persuasion, delivered over electronic media whose power to implant ideas is beyond anything the drafters could have envisioned. With radio and TV setting the standard for decisive political speech, where do the pamphleteers stand now?

The answer, of course, is Nowhere. It is not economically possible for any but the wealthiest among us to purchase spare capacity on the national radio and TV networks. Freedom of the electronic "press" literally now does belong to those who can afford to own, or at leaset purchase time from, a gigantic media outlet.

The net result of mixing an obsolete First Amendment with huge amounts of money and almost inconceivably powerful electronic communications is simple: speech is no longer remotely free.

Implausible as it may sound, I believe we are forced to consider amending our constitution to move at least some electronic communication into the U.S. system of checks and balances. We need rational regulation of these expensive media resources. Nothing else is going to help solve the current media dilemma, whose severity is demonstrated by the recent, sickening Ann Coulter fiasco.

Tags: Ann Coulter, Chris Matthews, Hardball, Freedom of Speech, First Amendment (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 61 comments

  •  Omg. (10+ / 0-)

    Unbelievable.

    Amend the Constitution because Ann Coulter is a nasty, vile hate-mongering bitch?  Okay.

    Your expensive MSM is already being counter-punched by a FREE internet.  Getting more wide-spread by the day.  In another ten years, you will see more personal computers than televisions.  My prediction.

    "But your flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore"--Prine 4130+ dead Americans. Bring them home.

    by Miss Blue on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 02:24:24 PM PDT

    •  indyradio, etc. (0+ / 0-)

      What's so hard about Peace, Love, and Truth and Progress?

      by melvin on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 02:28:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  No. No. No. (5+ / 0-)

      I can't disagree with this diarist enough.

      A majority of our younger people believe that the press has too much freedom and some should be taken away.

      The free press is part of America, and for a good reason.

      McCain: More pads than Kotex. More flats than Payless. More cribs than Babies R Us.

      by droogie6655321 on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 02:48:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah, what is with that? That (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        droogie6655321

        young people think there's too much freedom of the press. I've never understood that.

        •  It's just another generation removed... (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Indexer

          ... from the time when there has been real press censorship and prior restraint (IE: the war censorship bureau, self-censorship in the pre-McCarthy era, etc.)

          McCain: More pads than Kotex. More flats than Payless. More cribs than Babies R Us.

          by droogie6655321 on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 03:10:33 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I've always wondered whether (0+ / 0-)

            it was young people extrapolating the abuses of the paparrazzi to the rest of the media. But your explanation makes more sense.

            •  Well, there's more to it. (0+ / 0-)

              That was the negative side. On the positive side, this generation has never seen a huge turning point in history that was a direct result of the press. Their parents saw Woodward and Bernstein blow Watergate wide open and Walter Cronkite speak his conscience on Vietnam.

              Today's press are content to be bystanders, and are reluctant to take that kind of stand due to the heat it would put on them.

              McCain: More pads than Kotex. More flats than Payless. More cribs than Babies R Us.

              by droogie6655321 on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 03:15:27 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  Free TV & Radio will always be corporate (0+ / 0-)

      The huge market for TV & radio over free airwaves will not go away anytime soon. Old media always coexist with new media. What I'm saying is that wealthy interests will always have the advantage in controlling media apparatus, because... well, they have the cash. Something has to even that playing field. The fairness doctrine would help, but I'm not sure that's enough of a remedy.

      "This document is totally non-redactable and non-segregable and cannot even be meaningfully described." *

      by dratman on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 03:55:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  It's called the (11+ / 0-)

    Fairness Doctrine.  It works.

    Barbara Jordan = the anti Pelosi

    by Ghost of Frank Zappa on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 02:26:56 PM PDT

  •  Sorry, I can't agree (14+ / 0-)

    I think Keith Olbermann said it well:

    We Fight for Liberty by Having More Liberty and Not Less

    And I believe the best way to fight bad speech - like Ann Coulter - is with good speech.

    Besides, anyone with a brainstem saw her for what she is: a pipsqueak. (And I'm being kind by just calling her that)

    This ain't no party. This ain't no disco. This ain't no foolin' around!

    by Snud on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 02:27:27 PM PDT

    •  We've Got More Speech Than Ever (0+ / 0-)

      How's America working out for the world these days?

      Maybe it's working out better for you than it is for me.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 02:40:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's not working (0+ / 0-)

      The so-called freedom of speech is not working... obviously. How do you think Bush got "elected" and then re-elected by a reasonable margin. That's the effect of propaganda. As long as that's running against us, we can't win.

      "This document is totally non-redactable and non-segregable and cannot even be meaningfully described." *

      by dratman on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 03:58:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Think how much "better" (0+ / 0-)

        things would be if The Decider gets to decide what you can or cannot say because, in effect, intentionally or not, that's what you're advocating.

        Since the Revolutionary War untold numbers of  Americans have died to keep this freedom and you'd toss it all away because of Ann Coulter?

        BTW, I knew Ann Coulter was going to be on Tweety's show last night, well beforehand. I watched something else because I knew what Ann Coulter would say; I didn't need to hear it again. I hear Elizabeth Edwards got in a few good licks though.

        I honestly don't mean to be patronizing when I ask: Have you read how the framers of The Constitution arrived at the First Ammendment and why?

        Have you read George Orwell's "1984"? Here's a link to a Wikipedia Synopsis and I'll quote part of the "Background" paragraph:

        Elaborate strategies, such as perpetual warfare, are used to deny the proles the education needed to understand the potential for a better life. The reason for this is to keep the ruling faction in total power for eternity.

        This is accomplished in the novel, in part, by banning free speech.

        The ruling party's slogan is: "War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength".

        One last point: During Dubya's last presidential  candidacy anyone who wasn't on an RNC "approved" list couldn't get within a mile of the guy. Nope, they had to stay out of sight in places dubbed "Free Speech Zones". Sound familiar? If not, see the slogan in the paragraph above this one.

        This ain't no party. This ain't no disco. This ain't no foolin' around!

        by Snud on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 04:56:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I haven't the faintest idea what you mean (13+ / 0-)

    by this:

    . . . . I believe we are forced to consider amending our constitution to move at least some electronic communication into the U.S. system of checks and balances.

    But I don't like the sound of it.

    I believe it is possible to impose a little on what is after all corporate speech, bought and paid for with an eye to increasing profit. My argument, that it is all advertising anyway, none of it is really "speech," wouldn't get very far.

    We could try the fairness doctrine, which actually served a public purpose.

    All these proposals to just amend the Constitution because of some annoyance of the day really bother me. Who knows what would emerge from a new constitutional convention? I have a feeling it would be more hideous than we can even imagine.

    What's so hard about Peace, Love, and Truth and Progress?

    by melvin on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 02:28:00 PM PDT

    •  The answer is to break up (8+ / 0-)

      the monopolies in the corporate media.  It's ridiculous that ownership of the people's airways is controlled by a few large corporations.  Leave the first amendment alone!

      There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious...that you've got to put your bodies on the gears...and make it stop. -- Mario Savio

      by Boston Boomer on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 03:02:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I don't see how we can break them up now (0+ / 0-)

        Whoever owns the broken-up media will still be an incredibly rich, capitalistic entity. Those entities work in their own interest only. I just don't think we can get our country back unless we level the playing field, somehow or other. Under these rules, we always lose, because of the money... always the money.

        "This document is totally non-redactable and non-segregable and cannot even be meaningfully described." *

        by dratman on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 04:01:12 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  If you're talking about going (0+ / 0-)

          back the the fairness doctrine, maybe.  But don't fool with the first amendment.  Personally, I like listening to liberal talk shows without "balance."  

          There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious...that you've got to put your bodies on the gears...and make it stop. -- Mario Savio

          by Boston Boomer on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 04:54:48 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  tag repair at your service (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Ahianne, trashablanca

    original tags:

    "Ann Coulter" Coulter "Chris Matthews" Matthews Hardball "Freedom of Speech" "First Amendment"

    repaired tags:

    Ann Coulter, Chris Matthews, Hardball, Freedom of Speech, First Amendment, MSNBC

    Please use first & last names in your tags & seperate individal tags with commas.  For furure diaries, please don't use quotation marks.

    Thanks

    ```````
    peace

  •  Nobody ever insulted anyone in the early republic (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Ahianne, Nellcote

    And if they did, they had the good sense to have a duel over it, e.g., Al Hamilton and A. Burr.  The only cartoon was Family Circle.

    They couldn't have ever considered that free speech could be used in a MEAN way.

    John McCain has lost his bearings. And lost count of his houses. What's the MATTER with him?

    by Inland on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 02:32:34 PM PDT

  •  As a reporter, let me just say... (11+ / 0-)

    Not just no, but hell no.

    McCain: More pads than Kotex. More flats than Payless. More cribs than Babies R Us.

    by droogie6655321 on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 02:33:00 PM PDT

  •  My suggestion for an approach... (0+ / 0-)

    is to set a different standard.  The pendulum often swings back and hopefully as a society we will become inured to the shock value of insults masquerading as political discussion.

    If politics is theater then the trajectory is that of other media, where shock and adrenalin rush is the key to success. I would just pound away at rational discourse, making our point and ignoring those who feature the Coulters of the world.

    And I disagree, Mathews deserves to be condemned for having her on his show.

    •  Yes, of course he deserves to be condemned (0+ / 0-)

      Of course Chris Matthews needs to be condemned, and Ann Coulter too. But look at Glenn Beck. CNN just hired him recently. They can replace Matthews and Coulter with even worse people, anytime.

      My point is simple: the networks have far too much power. Somehow we have to balance that, or else the big money will always win every debate, because they have this amazing propaganda apparatus which non-wealthy organizations can't possibly match.

      How would you suggest fixing that problem?

      "This document is totally non-redactable and non-segregable and cannot even be meaningfully described." *

      by dratman on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 04:10:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  As the average sane person, (9+ / 0-)

    let me just say no, hell fucking no.

    Did you think about this before you put it in print?

    Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar. Edward R. Murrow

    by Pager on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 02:35:21 PM PDT

    •  I've thought about it a lot (0+ / 0-)

      I don't see how we can ever cancel out the Big Money aspect of the current media structure. Sure, "Freedom of the Press" sounds great, but at the present time it obviously is not working properly. So, if you think my suggestion is not a good one -- certainly possible -- do you have an alternate suggestion?

      "This document is totally non-redactable and non-segregable and cannot even be meaningfully described." *

      by dratman on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 04:04:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I have an excellent one. (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        YetiMonk

        Stick with the Constitution and leave it the hell alone.

        Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar. Edward R. Murrow

        by Pager on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 04:25:40 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  You've got the wrong end of the stick. (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    debedb

    The problem isn't restraining the wealthy.  The problem is empowering the masses.

    The Blogosphere helps tremendously of course.

    I also think that there should be private, low power amateur broadcasting licenses in significant contiguous block carved from the existing FM spectrum, and copyright laws liberalized to allow limited fair use of personally purchased material on those stations.

    I've lost my faith in nihilism

    by grumpynerd on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 02:38:29 PM PDT

  •  Hers is not the ONLY fault. (0+ / 0-)

    She's a shill for the rabid, but mostly for the money it brings her.  

    I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

    by beemerr90s on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 02:39:38 PM PDT

  •  I've Commented on This Problem for Years (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Indexer

    I don't have a pat answer, but we do need to recognize the possibility that the system itself can be a problem if it's kept static as time and whole epochs progress.

    We haven't amended the 2nd but we recognize the insanity of supporting the right to bear arms without regard to their power or reach.

    A similar concept might be applied to speech at some extreme top end of power and reach.

    Press would be a lot tougher to tackle because there the industry by name is protected. Possibly distinguishing between the actual content and the infrastructure might be a place to being thinking.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 02:44:20 PM PDT

  •  I don't know about you guys... (7+ / 0-)

    but don't mess with MY Constitution.  USE your freedom of speech (electronically or snail mail) to contact MSNBC, Coulter, Matthews, the advertisers of his show to express your outrage and that you will do everything in your power to counter their attacks.
    Better yet, contribute to John Edwards campaign - he seems to be the major target of "her" attacks and therefore must be the candidate "they" fear most.

    "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JFK

    by moose67 on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 02:47:56 PM PDT

    •  Yes, we can contact MSNBC, etc., but... (0+ / 0-)

      The problem is that the networks have no incentive to listen to what we write. Their only incentives are monetary. That's just the way capitalism works. Since we can't change capitalism, I don't think, I'm suggesting we adapt our Constitution to the current situation.

      "This document is totally non-redactable and non-segregable and cannot even be meaningfully described." *

      by dratman on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 04:06:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The hate always comes from the right especially (0+ / 0-)

    the religious right. We need to muzzle these bastards by passing a hate speech law then where could the likes of Coulter spread her venom.

    •  Censoring them would only make it worse (0+ / 0-)

      It would lend them sympathy and credibility. If we leave them alone and let them spew hate all they want, then there's only so much success they can achieve.

      It's called the steam valve principle of free speech. If the steam is not released regularly, there's an explosion.

      McCain: More pads than Kotex. More flats than Payless. More cribs than Babies R Us.

      by droogie6655321 on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 02:54:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  As soon as they got into power they'd pass a law (0+ / 0-)

      against us.

  •  What a colossally bad idea (6+ / 0-)

    You do realize that this same logic has given us such Bush Administration gems as warrantless wiretapping? We give up a freedom for the possibility, however far-fetched, of more, what, access to media? I truly do n ot understand your logic. And, judging by other comments, nobody else does either.

    And in case you haven't been paying attention, blogs are the new pamphlets.

    only fools are enslaved by time and space

    by PanzerMensch on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 02:49:23 PM PDT

  •  Dingbat. (5+ / 0-)

    I'd give you a recipe for boiled peas but maybe you're just a product of the watered-down no-child-left-behind teach-to-the-test education systems.

    We all support the right of free speech.  You can put up any silly thing you want and say it loud.

    We don't have to listen to you.  No one has to give you a platform to speak.  (Tweety's just misguided.)

    It's obvious by now that the basest elements of society will attract the most attention - think monster truck rallies, Texas Chainsaw Massacre films, Circus Maximus (where they tortured the Christians), and Ann Coulter.

    Here's where civilization comes in - bread and circuses assuage the masses but aren't really a good way to rule in the long term.

    The thought of the long term is what our government, and our elected officials, are supposed to have.  As in, regulation for the common good.  This is what the Rethug congress has been eroding.  And what we need back.  A la, the Fairness Doctrine, Habeas Corpus, a few other little details, that we need back.

    Get it now?  Go READ.

    •  Recced, but the Texas Chainsaw Massacre (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      droogie6655321

      (the original) is a classic of the genre. Can't watch it myself without cringing, but that's what it was supposed to do.

      •  I agree (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Indexer

        Along with "Halloween," "The Shining," "Psycho," and "Black Christmas," it's in my Top Five horror movies.

        McCain: More pads than Kotex. More flats than Payless. More cribs than Babies R Us.

        by droogie6655321 on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 03:12:44 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Haven't seen Black Christmas (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          droogie6655321

          And the Shining, while wonderful, was completely driven by Nicholson's genius rather than the power of the script which was a pale shadow of King's novel. Halloween, tho' is sui generis, and Psycho -- the king of them all.

          •  Aw, c'mon! (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            Indexer

            King himself said it was his favorite adaptation! There's nothing wrong with the script. I thought it was an ideal condensation of King's book -- which I re-read recently.

            Black Christmas is worth examining. Halloween, which is probably the perfect horror movie any way you slice it, owes a lot to Black Christmas.

            McCain: More pads than Kotex. More flats than Payless. More cribs than Babies R Us.

            by droogie6655321 on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 03:17:24 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Nope, nope. Gotta stick with my (0+ / 0-)

              opinion of Shining. The success of the film owes too much to Nicholson. For it to be a true groundbreaker you'd have to be able to put anyone in there and have it produce the same effect. Think of the original Dawn of the Dead. Absolutely nobody with any exposure or any acting experience (I believe) but it's still one of the best horror movies around.

  •  It is not the First Amend. or Free Speech. (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    inclusiveheart, JPete

    It is the fact that we have a culture of Hate in America and it is encourged by a repub party completely out of control.

    "Though the Mills of the Gods grind slowly,Yet they grind exceeding small."

    by Owllwoman on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 02:58:51 PM PDT

  •  Actually (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    emsprater

    I think the fault lies with the consumers of the message. The American people are not sheep, or at least should not be. However, due to laziness, desire to be entertained, and selfishness, we have chosen to be influenced by this crap.

    Maybe we have devolved into what Mike Malloy has called "sheeple?"

    "The fact which the politician faces is merely that there is less honor among thieves than was supposed, and not the fact that they are thieves." Thoreau

    by shigeru on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 03:05:08 PM PDT

    •  Electronic media is so powerful (0+ / 0-)

      Wires and electrons are too potent for the human body and brain to resist. We have to change the rules to compensate for these powerful weapons, or else invent something more powerful. Then internet is of course a huge help, but I don't think it's enough.

      "This document is totally non-redactable and non-segregable and cannot even be meaningfully described." *

      by dratman on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 04:13:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I might agree that the message (0+ / 0-)

        was/is too difficult for many to resist. That is people at one point tended to trust an electonic, televised message. However, it can be resisted. I do recall that even the printed message was believed uncritically until people developed enough critical reasoning to overcome that.

        We actually did have rules called the Fairness Doctrine which prevented networks from being too one-sided. Interestingly it never applied to print media. The Fairness Doctrine was removed during the Clinton years.

        "The fact which the politician faces is merely that there is less honor among thieves than was supposed, and not the fact that they are thieves." Thoreau

        by shigeru on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 05:14:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Your diaries and comments would be the (0+ / 0-)

    first things to go under your plan.

    As much as I think your diary is utterly stupid, I still think you have every right to share it.

  •  The problem is not MSNBC (0+ / 0-)

    but electronic media in general, that gathers all media outlets in the hands of a few fat cats. This is especially true for radio -- ever checked a major market area and seen how many outlets are owned by Clear Channel?

    The solution is to overhaul Bill Clinton's well-intentioned but fatally flawed Telecommunications Act, to restrict a single person (or corporation) owning more than a few stations in a marketplace. This will allow for far more diversity in the public airwaves, and perhaps some more progressive voices can be heard above the right-wing noise.

    Brad Kava of the San Jose Mercury News had a great column on this today...

    "Old soldiers never die -- they get young soldiers killed." -- Bill Maher

    by Cali Scribe on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 04:15:39 PM PDT

    •  Very good article in San Jose Mercury News (0+ / 0-)

      Thanks for the link.

      Possibly Brad Kava is correct that ownership diversification could help remedy the media lock, but I'm skeptical. Under our existing system, a very expensive asset such as a TV station can only be owned by a wealthy economic unit, one which is doing well under prevailing economic and technological structures. This ensures a tilt toward existing social and economic structures.

      Throughout the fossil fuel era such a tilt has usually guaranteed that the economic players of the time remained economic players in the future. Now, with the end of fossil fuels in sight, it's clear that the familiar industrial economic landscape will have to change. New modes of living and working will have to be found.

      I think most people already sense this scary new future coming at them; however, without intervention, our social structures will automatically continue as they did before. In fact those existing structures will remain the same until collapse, and then we will have to try to reorganize everything using whatever broken pieces survive.

      That method of social and economic evolution will definitely permit change, but probably not in the way most people would like to see.

      My contention is that our only hope of avoiding a disintegration of everything we know is to generate and disseminate as much radically free thought and communication as we can manage, in the hope that some of it will suggest new modalities for keeping alive at least a decent fraction of the six billion people now alive on the planet.

      To do so I suspect we will need to restructure the ownership of information conduits, particularly those that control one-way (broadcast) media. These seemingly innocuous radio and TV broadcasts are like machine guns in a sea of wooden swords. No amount of hand wringing can change that. We cannot afford not to respond calmly, and with careful thought, to the upcoming challenges.

      "This document is totally non-redactable and non-segregable and cannot even be meaningfully described." *

      by dratman on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 09:27:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

Permalink | 61 comments